The Top 10

Post by **silentseason** » Wed Mar 14, 2012 3:40 pm

Just another food for thought thread, this time singling out and ranking what I think were the top 10 moments of the original incarnation of LoVE. These are all loosely ranked but I believe the events are worthy of merit.

10. The October 1966 Concerts at the Whisky A-Go-Go. This was the unofficial debut of Da Capo live as well as the on-stage debut of Tjay Cantrelli on sax/flute and Snoopy on keyboards as well as Michael on drums. This may have been the apex of the group as a live entity as they now had new material to play as well as a newer, jazzier sound. Unfortunately this incarnation would only last a few months, but the combination of venue and sound made these particular shows important.

9. Money Mutinies. Twice in 1966 Arthur would cause major headaches for Elektra, both involving money demands. Once Arthur had the original contract with Elektra voided because he was a minor when he originally signed, and the other occured when Arthur and Johnny brought Michael along to try to get the label to release them from their contract due to inequities in how the records were being made. Arthur was successful in the first go as he got Jac Holzman to resign the band for more money, but on the second they were denied their demands. Their would be more tension and more renegotiations later on, but the dissatisfaction with money and contracts was always bubbling around the band.

8. Group signs contract giving most control to Arthur. On January 11, 1968, the band signed a new contract that gave directions for all royalties, among other things, to be sent directly to Arthur for him to disburse to the other band members. While the signing of a contract would seem to be of little importance in the recounting of a band's history, this is simply not the case in regards to LoVE. Contracts would always be a sore point in LoVE's history and this one maybe more than the others was the most harmful. Two points are worth examining. One, it is a strong indication that Arthur was becoming more autocratic and dominating in his view regarding his bandmates. This is, in my opinion, the most prevalent reason as to why the original group dissolved later in 1968: Arthur wanted total control of all things in LoVE. Second, there would be financial reprecussions felt afterward as members questioned the accuracy of the royalty payments. Bad feelings prevailed long after the 60's around this issue.

7. Michael Stuart joins group. For the first and last time the band would have a stable situation on the drumkit. Don Conka, almost universally acknowledged as a drumming wonder, couldn't get his personal problems under control. Snoopy was available but was not the best musical or social fit for the group. When Michael signed on the band finally solved their percussion problem. He was not the flashiest the group ever had, but IMHO the best, including the later incarnations of the group.

6. The missed Miami Pop Festival Concert. That the band missed a gig may not be hugely important but I believe this was the huge red flag that the end was coming. The band was scheduled to play in Miami on May 18, 1968 but cancelled when Arthur essentially didn't want to be around the rest of the group. They played shows after this date but maybe more than anything this is the harbinger of the dissolution of LoVE.

5. June '66 7 and 7 Is recording session. If I had to pick a date that LoVE grew up, then this was it. Not only was the song '7 and 7 Is' a huge jump for the group sound-wise, in the studio they were able to do what they wanted regardless of who was producing. The first album recorded six months earlier was raw but lacking in technology. Starting with this session the band was able to get both the sound they wanted and philosophically their music was now under their control for the first time. They would continue to control their songs in the Da Capo and Forever Changes albums, but the freedom to experiment started here.

4. Tjay and Snoopy let go. In December of 1966 due to music and financial reasons Arthur decided to cut loose Tjay Cantrelli and Snoopy from the band. The situation was always volatile in the band but this purging forever closed a door that I felt still had alot of potential to explore. If they had stayed might the band have further pursued some form of jazz-rock that they had just opened with Da Capo? Or might the two have been blended in with what resulted with Forever Changes? It will never be known.

3. November 7 1969 "Reunion" concert. Perhaps it is over optimistic on my part but what if the band would have been able to patch up the differences between each other and resume recording/touring together in the latter part of '69? Might they have been able to recapture the magic? It wasn't to be, and quite frankly they shouldn't have attempted it at that time. There were still money issues, drug problems and personal differences that hadn't been solved yet. The fact that Bryan wasn't part of this is a good indication of how fractured the band still was. After this the band would never play together again and since it is their last concert and the ending of an era it is noteworthy.

2. Forever Changes wrecking crew sessions. While the June '67 sessions where members of the LA studio musicians known as the "Wrecking Crew" yielded only two songs that ultimately ended up on Forever Changes, the most important aspect of them was that they motivated the group to tone down getting high, concentrate on the music and as Michael has said "practice, practice, practice". The resultant music became the album Forever Changes, arguably the greatest rock album ever produced.

1. Bryan joins group. If ever there was a component when "LoVE became LoVE" then I think when Bryan became a full-time member in '65 was it. From songwriter to sound to scene Bryan was where it all coalesced together. Without him the group, both good and bad aspects of it, would never have been.

Post by **jamestkirk** » Wed Mar 14, 2012 4:08 pm

Good one, John.

I was intrigued & read with bated breath to see what your number one Love moment would be.

YES--absolutely. Bryan's joining Love was seminal!

Post by **silentseason** » Thu Mar 22, 2012 2:45 pm

Top 10 individual lyrics within a song. The Doors justifiably had the reputation as being THE dark lyrical band, but looking at this they weren't the only Elektra group with preoccupations with death and pain. No real rhyme or reason to this list, just lyrics that taken both in context of the music of the song the came from and independently really have an effect.

10. Que Vida: "But death just starts another..."

9. Gazing: "A mulatto soul so rare, intercepted by gravitation..."

8. 7 and 7 Is: "Trapped inside a night and I'm a day..."

7. Alone Again Or: "...I will be along again tonight my dear..."

6. Signed DC: "My soul belongs to the dealer, He keeps my mind as well..."

5. You Set The Scene: "And for every happy hello, there will be good-bye..."

4. Your Mind And We Belong Together: "I feel like I have been through hell, But you tell me I haven't even started yet..."

3. The Red Telephone: "Sitting on a hillside, Watching all the people die, I'll feel much better on the other side..."

2. A House Is Not A Motel: "By the time that I'm through singing, The bells from the schools of war will be ringing..."

1. Andmoreagain: "And when you've given all you had, And everything still turns out bad, And all your secrets are your own..."

Post by **jamestkirk** » Thu Mar 22, 2012 3:54 pm

Arthur was a genus with his lyrics. A lot like Gene Clark with his zen-like poetry in song.

Post by **BallroomDays67** » Thu Mar 22, 2012 6:31 pm

Great list. I agree with most of it, but would have put the hiring of David Angel somewhere in there. What would "Forever Changes" have sounded like without his input? While the songwriting and instrumentation are spectacular, the brilliant orchestral arrangements played a crucial role in making "Forever Changes" so unique and extraordinary.

Post by **silentseason** » Thu Mar 22, 2012 6:32 pm

jamestkirk wrote:Arthur was a genus with his lyrics. A lot like Gene Clark with his zen-like poetry in song.

Lee, Morrison, Clark and Stills/Young: all within the same time frame, and in the same vicinity. LA was the hotbed of rock in 1966.

Post by **silentseason** » Thu Mar 22, 2012 6:36 pm

BallroomDays67 wrote:Great list. I agree with most of it, but would have put the hiring of David Angel somewhere in there. What would "Forever Changes" have sounded like without his input? While the songwriting and instrumentation are spectacular, the brilliant orchestral arrangements played a crucial role in making "Forever Changes" so unique and extraordinary.

Excellent point Bally and obviously deserving of high importance in the band's history.

Post by **silentseason** » Thu Mar 29, 2012 3:14 pm

Top 10 individual solo or just outstanding musical efforts within a song.

10. Kenny's bass on "The Castle"; the band's most underrated song, IMO, and Kenny blends the fat bass against the other guitars superbly.

9. Snoopy's drumming on "7 and 7 Is"; give Snoop credit: his last drumming effort was his best and he did a great job here.

8. Arthur's scat singing/Johnny's guitar solo in "Clark/Hilldale"; cool, jazzy feel are the perfect fit to this underestimated song.

7. Johnny's guitar dual with himself at the end of "A House Is Not A Motel" ; before Hendrix did Star Spangled Banner war effects Johnny came first.

6. Kenny's bass runs during the mid section of "My Flash On You"; it's almost an impossibility for the bass to be the star of a song but it happens here.

5. Michael's drum solo in "Revelation"; typical Michael-disciplined but with enough energy to shine.

4. Bryan's intro picking on "Alone Again Or"; the flamenco effect is the perfect beginning to this song.

3. Tjay's flute during the closing section of "Orange Skies"; beautiful and harmonius. I wish they could have stayed on this type of music for more than one album.

2. Arthur's harmonica solo in "Signed DC"; LoVE wasn't known as a blues group, but listening to this you wouldn't know it.

1. Johnny's guitar solo in "Your Mind And We Belong Together"; if the band was leaning towards a hard rock direction for their future then this is a good indication that they would have been at the vanguard of this style as they had been on their previous albums.

Post by **jamestkirk** » Thu Mar 29, 2012 3:36 pm

Very good.

Great list!

Post by **BallroomDays67** » Thu Mar 29, 2012 5:04 pm

Yes, great list. I too would have put Johnny's "Your Mind and We" guitar solo at #1.

Post by **silentseason** » Mon Apr 02, 2012 1:14 am

Honorable mention, retroactively: Johnny's guitar solo at the end of "Live And Let Live". Superb ending to that song with an outstanding solo from Johnny.

Post by **silentseason** » Thu Apr 19, 2012 5:00 pm

Top 10 gigs I would wanted to have seen, with criterion being lineup of bands and/or importance of gig.

10. April 18 1968 Fillmore West, San Francisco CA with the Staple Singers and Roland Kirk. I would have loved to have seen a show at one of the most famous rock venues ever, and Kirk's unique style of playing is a must see.

9. March 21-26 1967 Rock Garden, San Francisco CA with Big Brother and the Holding Company and CIA. A chance to see Janis Joplin and if you were lucky hear the conversation between Arthur, Johnny and the soldier who helped inspire "A House Is Not A Motel'; oh yeah, and since it was a bar as well as a club: Alcohol!!

8. December 15-17 1967 Blue Law, Torrence CA with Canned Heat and the Hook. The unofficial live debut of "Forever Changes", if any actual songs were played from it. Plus Canned Heat, one of the undervalued bands of the era.

7. July 20 1968 Kaleidoscope, Los Angeles CA; last official concert for original LoVE? If so then for historic reasons an important gig.

6. May 31-June 1 1968 Grande Ballroom, Detroit MI with the Crazy World of Arthur Brown and Psychedelic Stooges. For pure outrageous theatrics this one can't be beat.

5. June 25 1966 Hollywood Bowl, Los Angeles CA "Beach Boys Summer Spectacular" with the Beach Boys, Byrds, Lovin' Spoonful, Chad and Jeremy, Percy Sledge, Sunrays, Neil Diamond, Leaves, Sir Douglas Quintet, and Captain Beefheart. Another famous venue with an line up of bands to envy.

4. February 10 1967 Modesto Skate Rink, Modesto CA with the Doors, Infinity and Eisage. The Doors and LoVE on the same bill; what else needs to be said?

3. April 23 1967 The Cheetah, Santa Monica CA with Iron Butterfly and Chambers Brothers. Maybe the hardest rocking bill that LoVE ever played?

2. December 9 1966 Santa Monica Auditorium, Santa Monica CA with the Turtles, Gene Clark, Seeds, Standells and Count Five. Top to bottom every band is a winner.

1. November 7 1969 Santa Monica Auditorium, Santa Monica CA; last concert (minus Bryan) of the original group. Besides being the last concert, there seems to be some disagreement over how the band performed which piques my curiosity.

Post by **BallroomDays67** » Thu Apr 19, 2012 5:54 pm

How about one of their Bido Lito's shows with Don Conka on drums? I would probably choose their first show under the name "Love."

I also would have included the August, '66 Whisky show that resulted in the Doors being fired from the Whisky.

And, I've always wanted to hear what the Chocolate Watchband sounded like live, so I would have picked the 11/23/66 show at the San Jose Civic Auditorium, which also included the Leaves.

That said, I'm not sure which shows those would replace, as your selections are great.

Post by **silentseason** » Thu Apr 19, 2012 6:29 pm

There were some that were hard to leave out. The San Jose show in particular was one of great merit.

I didn't even consider the infamous "Oedipal" Doors show at the Whiskey that resulted in their firing. I got me to thinking from LoVE's perspective: did they watch this as it is was happening, or at least hear it from the dressing room? Did they have to deal with Phil and/or Elmer who were both probably in a lather after JDM's surprise addition to The End and if so how were they treated? What was the mood like in the audience as they would have had to gone on after this since they were headlining? I wonder if Johnny had any memories of this or it was just another show to him (not sure if Michael was on board yet or Snoop was still drumming)? Man I wish a boot of this would surface.

Post by **BallroomDays67** » Thu Apr 19, 2012 7:05 pm

Snoop was still on drums at that point, but those would be great questions for Johnny!

Post by **silentseason** » Thu May 03, 2012 11:48 am

Top 10 quotes, randomly selected.

10. Snoopy on the Castle: "It was a total shit-hole." Snoop was not one to pull any punches about what he thinks.

9. Michael on listening to LoVE records now: "I'm really happy and grateful that other people enjoy those two albums and I'm proud as I can possibly be to have participated in their making, but I just don't like to listen to them at all." Michael the perfectionist.

8. Bryan on his songwriting: "I was always going after timelessness." Mission accomplished.

7. Johnny on Bryan's writing style: "Too many chocolate-covered rainbows". Humorous counterpoint.

6. Johnny on the business aspects of music: "Music is a cut-throat business, if you don't demand what you believe is yours, you have no one to blame, except the man in the mirror." Harsh but true.

5. Michael on what it took to make Forever Changes: "Go home and practice more, get high less, focus, and then come back prepared." Succinct and to the point.

4. Tie-Arthur: "Tempe Arizona? It's so fucking hot there"/"I don't want to go to New York for one gig." (Woodstock)

3. Arthur on Forever Changes: "At the time I wrote those songs, I thought this might be the last album I'd ever make." Maybe this is the key factor to explain the lyrical genius of the album.

2. Arthur: "Echols, man, I don't get your trip" from the Your Mind sessions. Never fails to get a chuckle.

1. Arthur: "Love on earth must be". Double meaning or not? With Arthur you just never knew.

Post by **silentseason** » Thu May 10, 2012 3:49 pm

Top 10 non-album LoVE media items.

10. "Follow The Music: The Life and High Times of Elektra Records in the Great Years of American Pop Culture". Jac Holzman's book may not get all the facts correct, but a good read and someone who was a key player in the band's professional life.

9. "Riot On Sunset Strip". Dominic Priore's book only has a small segment on LoVE, but for an overview of the whole LA scene this is a good one to have (plus Arthur wrote the forward).

8. "The Castle". For a while the only artery of information about the group that kept the flame of interest alive.

7. "Rock Prosopography" LoVE family tree/show list. Bruno's site is full of info on LoVE and alot of other rock bands.

6. "The Forever Changes Concert" DVD. Great visuals of Arthur in the 21st century before illness and the best recorded treatment that included strings and horns that FC ever got.

5. "LoVE Story" DVD. Well done film that paces itself smartly. The chief complaints about it (not enough vintage film of the group in its heyday) aren't valid. It is essentially the only real visual documentary of the group, then and in 2005.

4. "Behind The Scenes On The Pegasus Carousel with the legendary rock group LoVE". I will admit I haven't had the chance to read Michael's book yet, but his responses to questions lead me to conclude he has a wry sense of humor and is honest in his recollections. Besides that, it is the only published literary book by any of the group's members.

3. "Forever Changes: Arthur Lee and the Book of LoVE". Einarson's book was one long overdue and has assumed the mantle as paradigm for both Arthur and the group's lifespan.

2. "The Freedomman Forum". Ed's site is a Doors fan forum primarily, but the inclusion of the two LoVE sections and the other LoVE features are wonderful online editions to view.

1. "Torben Skott's LoVE Forum". The longest (?) and most extensive fan forum on the internet of the group.

Post by **djmartins** » Thu Dec 20, 2012 7:55 pm

silentseason wrote:
jamestkirk wrote:Arthur was a genus with his lyrics. A lot like Gene Clark with his zen-like poetry in song.
Lee, Morrison, Clark and Stills/Young: all within the same time frame, and in the same vicinity. LA was the hotbed of rock in 1966.

Best time ever for rock music!!!